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Arcademy  >  Index  >  EPN talk  >  The state of EP/ROTR. [1]

Author Topic: The state of EP/ROTR.  (Read 10058 times)

Longtime denizen of the old Elecplay forum here! :)

This new site is pretty interesting. Great on a technical level, colours are reminiscent of retro EP.

Some stuff could use clarification, though. What does "Arcademy" mean? What are "trials"? What does the profile "tag" do, etc. I think in-depth descriptions of all the Greedy shows would be helpful too. Manuals and strategy guides still exist for games, y'know. ;)

But let's get to the meat now...



~~~~


I'm a hardcore gamer, and a Nintendo fanboy. I started watching EP in the second season, and instantly fell in love. Previews, interviews, technobabble, and EPIC banter from Vic & Tommy. However, I stopped watching soon after the switch to daily.

I get that you can't fill 30 minutes 5 days a week with -nothing- but hard-hitting gaming news, but really, you can do a lot better. EP isn't a gaming show anymore. More than 50% of each episode is movies, music, comic books, collectibles, and what little gaming content remains is focused on mobile gaming, much of which is barely more advanced than flash/java games from 10 years ago.

I'm sure that Vic and his staff aren't stupid. The bottom line comes first, and movies/superheroes/phone games *are* decidedly more mass market than Elder Scrolls Online, Unreal Engine 4, and Xenoblade.

But it really hurts, man, especially when hardcore gaming has NOT died a horrible death. Not even close.

NeoGAF. GameTrailers. GameSpot. CVG. Kotaku. Game Informer. EGM. Even the mixed bag that is IGN has more and better gaming content.

Plus all of the video producers - AVGN, Game Theory, DYKG, Game Grumps, JonTron, PeanutButterGamer, ScrewAttack, etc. - we're still here, and we still crave the goods.

I haven't even LOOKED at EP in a year, but last I did, the presentation, as well as the content, was weak. The old EP was cool like a Ferrari. Now it's trying to be hip like a college student wearing the first thing they picked off the thrift shop rack. A Tommy vs. Scott sort of thing...

And, speaking of Tommy, why oh why oh WHY did you stop using his music? The new themes are seriously bland in comparison. :(

Seeing that you've uploaded the entire first season is absolutely wonderful! But watching that first episode, interviewing all the big names at E3, including Miyamoto himself, and remembering all the in-depth segments featuring the latest graphics cards, engines, tech demos, reviews of RTS games, etc., etc....



P.S. I'd pay for access to all the old episodes in a heartbeat - maybe getting some recompense would encourage such an addition to the site?

I can speak for the Arcademy portion.

Arcademy is currently building. Tags, Trials, Ranks, Grades, everything will be abstract until other areas open and complete the picture. Considering how some areas intertwine, there's reason for that.

A rolling launch is what we wanted, to let people settle in over the next while before we're fully open. At that point, EVERYTHING will be extremely clear with their own instruction manuals, guidances and tie ins once the content is there to point out.

Simply put, Arcademy is unfolding as more goes live. You'll know all about it soon enough. :)

"War...has changed..."

TBH I watch EP Daily/ ROTR every single day at work. and then let it re-run about 6 times for people who come into my store. Though I will agree I used to get more entertainment out of the older seasons, there is a reason they're still going after 20 some odd years and be the ONLY game-related show on TV (at least that I'm aware of in Canada).

They can adapt to something that gets them the broadest amount of viewers. Mobile Gaming is actually pretty popular now... as much as we "True gamers" hate to admit it.

 There is plenty more content kicking around EPN.TV and even Arcademy is somewhat of a Hardcore Gamers paradise what with daily challenges, awesome community and the other things they have planned to roll out in the coming weeks.(Wont spoil anything for the people who are new to it).

And hey if you're disappointed in the lack of content for hardcore gaming, toss some suggestions to the community. We've already got some plans for some good community created content, we're always up for suggestions.

There is plenty more content kicking around EPN.TV and even Arcademy is somewhat of a Hardcore Gamers paradise what with daily challenges, awesome community and the other things they have planned to roll out in the coming weeks.(Wont spoil anything for the people who are new to it).

I approve of this post completely. War HAS changed.

And hey if you're disappointed in the lack of content for hardcore gaming, toss some suggestions to the community. We've already got some plans for some good community created content, we're always up for suggestions.

As impressive as this site is, I doubt that I'll be doing much on it besides making forum posts.

Call me stuck in a rut, but I'm not much for "expanded experiences". I play games, I read gaming news, I talk about games. That's it.

And that's what makes me miss the old EP so much. It was pure gaming condensed into a half-hour of no-BS awesomeness. I can get most of the same stuff online now, but I have to go to multiple sites, wait for choppy videos to buffer, sift through all the junk, etc.

I have little interest in any of EP's new topics. The last movie I saw was Kon-Tiki in 2012. The last album I bought was AC/DC's Black Ice in 2008. The last NEW comic book I bought was Hsu & Chan #8 in 2009. And I see smartphones as time-wasters/the junk-food of electronics.

If I were Vic, I would spin off all of the non-gaming media into a new show, and use it to subsidize the REAL EP, which would feature a minimum 70/30 division between console/PC and mobile, and make ROTR a 1 hour weekly with ONLY console/PC - there's more than enough indie/Steam releases to compensate for droughts of AAA...

*sigh* ...but I suppose that thinking conflicts with what the mighty demographic chart dictates, eh?


As impressive as this site is, I doubt that I'll be doing much on it besides making forum posts.

Call me stuck in a rut, but I'm not much for "expanded experiences". I play games, I read gaming news, I talk about games. That's it.

If that's what you like then this place will absolutely have something for you. Trials and the like aren't the only aspects, and let's be totally honest, it's not THAT impressive yet. It's still over half locked! :P

EPN is also in a rolling launch. There's a ways to go yet, though that'll show itself in a different way as more opens up.

We absolutely love the feedback, since it offers another perspective to consider. While "the mighty demographic chart" can dictate fate for many, every trend starts with something outside of the norm. Speak up, and never think you're fighting a tide because we want to hear what you have to say.

Take in mind it's called Electric Playground; not Gaming Playground

I do see where you're coming from though, as there has been a little bit of a lack of gaming content. While much more of the gaming focus has gone to mobile, can you blame them? Just look at all the console titles released as of late.

However, it's a show about everything electronic. Where you may not be interested in movies and comics, other viewers could say the same about gaming. I agree it would be nice to see more gaming content, but the show's trying to appeal to all audiences. It'd be like only serving chocolate icecream at an icecream parlor; to which only the chocolate lovers would visit. Not really fair hey?

EP's is a something unique, at the moment. It straddles the line between other televised entertainment shows, but without the celebrity gossip fluff (no offense if you're into that stuff); and gaming/tech shows, though I do it feels it sacrifices some depth specialized gaming sites and tech sites have. It might not be as exhaustive as other news sites, but it's different and somehow more personal, because everything's not only presented but also critiqued (it has that local news vibe?). Oh, and there's the great community here too.

It might not be as exhaustive as other news sites, but it's different and somehow more personal, because everything's not only presented but also critiqued (it has that local news vibe?). Oh, and there's the great community here too.

You see a "unique" presentation, I see a jumbled mess that's only watchable if nothing else is on.

EP's always had that personal touch, thanks to Vic having control of the show, not Viacom/Bell/Rogers/Omnicorp. But IMO, that warm, cozy feeling is negated by the show targeting everyone and pleasing...the mighty demographic chart, I guess? :wut:

Well, heck. I guess I'll just hang around here until Greedy's finance dept. declares that my kind is worth targeting again.


You see a "unique" presentation, I see a jumbled mess that's only watchable if nothing else is on.

I don't think that's really fair. Unlike other shows, they don't "tease" their audience to watch their whole show (often out of order too). You can always just watch the intro segments or the Rundown, then go on to watch the rest of the episode. Alternatively, you can use the headlines to find out more on your own. In my opinion, it's pretty organized.

I've been watching RotR and EP for 4-ish years now, so I don't really know about its state before.  I understand that you might not be satisfied with the show's content, it does not apply to one demographic. The reason they talk about comics, movies, etc. is to try to make MORE people interested in the show, not just gamers. Although gamers might be a very large part of the fanbase, I like movie reviews and trailers. As a busy student, I use EP/RotR to catch up on the electronic news I miss during classes. I would suggest you to try this. Record both EP and RotR, then watch the first 2 minutes. The intro tells you what's going on with the episode. If it's all about the mobile gaming, just delete it. If it interest you, watch it. I support Vic and his gang but I also understand not everybody is gonna love indie games and movies.

*
The problem is the shows are getting away from the main purpose of the programs which was gaming! Drop the movie reviews and stick to what you know which is gaming. We have ET and many other movie/TV review shows. GET BACK TO YOUR ROOTS!!!! I was once a diehard viewer but not any more. One reason is  Scott Jones I find him to be a complete A##h***. And of course movie reviews! Sorry but THEY know ABSOLUTELY nothing about movies!! I don't care if there believable or not! I don't care who they think should have played the part!! I don't need anyone to tell me if I should see a certain show! They have no idea what I like or don't like! And as far as games go I want an honest opinion a game  base on how the game is designed, graphics, smoothness, bugs and glitches not this constant rubber stamping of how great the game is based on who put it. Like they did with Battlefront 4!!!! The game was a mess with all kinds of problems and not word out of Victor or Scott!! They just ranted on as to how great the game was and there's no way they played this game. And if they did and still gave a glowing report makes me wonder what did they get for ignoring the blatant problems with it.

We've had some reports about what RJH has to say; RJH, you've made some interesting points here, but one of the things that isn't acceptable is personal criticism that isn't backed up with citations or reasoning. You've said you don't like Scott because you think he's an asshole – alright, that's your opinion... but what's it based on?

It's in our forum rules that you need to put up or shut up, so if you're going to be rude at least have the stones to offer some details. For that you get a warning and you'll find it on your account. Feel free to PM me if you have a problem with that.


Bringing this back on topic: I agree that Battlefield 4 got a pass when it shouldn't have. I own the PS3 and the PS4 version ($10 upgrade) and I have been grossly displeased with the experience. I'm disappointed that it continues to be marketed by EA, and I'm frustrated that I can't get my money back from Premium. I don't know how much Vic or the team have played of BF4; it wasn't until I moved to multiplayer that I had problems–I was one of the few who didn't have to deal with the save game bug, so up until I hit multi I probably would have told you I was enjoying the game too.

That leads to the point of needing ongoing coverage of games that continue to evolve, and it's something I'll bring up with Vic directly the next time I chat with him.

Thanks for your feedback. Try not to be so judgemental of people you don't know, eh? It makes you the demonstrable asshole in a situation like this.

1. GET BACK TO YOUR ROOTS!!!! I was once a diehard viewer but not any more.

2. One reason is Scott Jones I find him to be a complete A##h***.

3. I don't need anyone to tell me if I should see a certain show! They have no idea what I like or don't like!

4. And as far as games go I want an honest opinion a game base on how the game is designed, graphics, smoothness, bugs and glitches not this constant rubber stamping of how great the game is based on who put it.

The game was a mess with all kinds of problems and not word out of Victor or Scott!! They just ranted on as to how great the game was and there's no way they played this game. And if they did and still gave a glowing report makes me wonder what did they get for ignoring the blatant problems with it.


5. Like they did with Battlefront 4!!!!

I've split this post up so that some questions can be asked without sifting.

1. What has changed between the older episodes of EP and the new that you don't approve of? Changes definitely HAVE happened. What are the ones you dislike and why?

2. You mentioned that Scott is an asshole, yet you want EP to go back to its roots which includes the opinionated and often times abrasive Tommy Tallarico, whom MANY cite as their all time favourite host. What is it about Scott, specifically, that makes him so abrasive to you, compared to Tommy or the others?

3. Is there a reason this sentiment applies to shows and movies, but not video games? You follow this up saying you want their full in depth coverage of games, and for them to go back to their roots which are games. I doubt they're mind reading your opinions on games, so why not apply it to both, whether that's in depth coverage, or them not knowing what you like?

4. It's true that a lot of the EP opinions are exactly that, opinions. None of the hosts EVER deny that fact, and go with what they like, why they like it, and give multiple views (hence ROTR) to show a few different perspectives and experiences on their time with those games. You mention Battlefield 4 being a buggy inexcusable mess with online, which is absolutely the case. However, back when I played through Assassin's Creed 1 and Lost Planet, I didn't experience any bugs other than the odd pop-in glitch. Neither did my longtime friend and roommate at the time. Meanwhile, another friend on a different machine got nearly every bug you can think of in AC1 which completely disconnected him from the experience, while yet ANOTHER friend had a game breaking bug in Lost Planet resulting in him dropping the game completely. Don't even get me started on Skyrim, a game that people ADORE, despite some of those same people having game breaking bugs that needed two hours of effort or modding to fix.

The point here is that different people have different experiences with games. Not everyone will find Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons to be heartwrenching, and not everyone will identify with the characters in The Last of Us, or have their jaws dropped in the Walking Dead, and not everyone will experience the same sets of bugs and technical limitations.

THAT BEING SAID, your point seems to be that you want more objective DETAIL about the games, discussions on technical limitations or achievements like framerate, resolution, and binaural sound, artistic background such as the style basis, the story background, design elements such as control layout, HUD design, and finally performance, menu navigation, online matchmaking success, how smooth the overall experience is, solutions for people disconnecting, etc.

Hopefully this parses your comment a bit better, and you're looking for more objective analysis of the games to compliment the more subjective "how did you like it" opinions.

5. Battlefront 4 doesn't exist. Battlefield 4 likely what you meant.


Obviously there are stances in that post worth elaboration. However, unless they're clear and constructive stances that aren't antagonizing at every turn, it's tough to take them into consideration. Please elaborate on your points. The passion is nice to see, so it'd be appreciated if you can.

Anyone can feel free to answer this post too. Wide feedback is appreciated!

POL'S NOTE: I understand each of RJH's points, and there really are some important points being made in his post, hence taking the time to discuss each one. Elaboration is warranted, and dividing what was said from HOW it was said helps.

THAT BEING SAID, your point seems to be that you want more objective DETAIL about the games, discussions on technical limitations or achievements like framerate, resolution, and binaural sound, artistic background such as the style basis, the story background, design elements such as control layout, HUD design, and finally performance, menu navigation, online matchmaking success, how smooth the overall experience is, solutions for people disconnecting, etc.

I'D certainly love to see stuff like that. If they were to put that much detail into the game reviews, there'd be no room for the movies and such. ET/IMDB/newspapers already have movies covered - why does a GAMING show believe that it needs to offer them as well?

It's called The Electric Playground. Because of the interactive aspect, games offer so much more to discuss than movies do. You don't see debates about remotes and Blu-ray players like you do controllers and consoles. You watch a movies for 2 hours, it's done. The top games go 40-60 hours (longer than multiple TV seasons), not counting multiplayer, modding, and open-ended stuff like WOW, TES, Sim City, etc. And nobody can deny that E3 is at least 10 times more exciting than The Oscars! 8)

...then again, if the report from finance says we gotta have more Spielberg with our Miyamoto... :'(

Quote
It's called The Electric Playground. Because of the interactive aspect, games offer so much more to discuss than movies do. You don't see debates about remotes and Blu-ray players like you do controllers and consoles. You watch a movies for 2 hours, it's done. The top games go 40-60 hours (longer than multiple TV seasons), not counting multiplayer, modding, and open-ended stuff like WOW, TES, Sim City, etc. And nobody can deny that E3 is at least 10 times more exciting than The Oscars! 8)

...then again, if the report from finance says we gotta have more Spielberg with our Miyamoto... :'(

A couple things here.

1. It's also called The Electric Playground, smartphones, TVs, computers, sound systems, gadgets and other technology all being luxury electronics for the purposes of entertainment, amusement, productivity, communication or otherwise. In other words, fun things using electricity. Based on the name, EPN could cover sound systems and not be off base. It's also a 20 year old brand name. Comics are also not electrically powered. This gets pedantic, FAST.

It's worth stating that movies are also a driving force for high end electronics, including TVs and sound systems (Sports being second pass), in rendering/compositing technologies, animation and many many other digital/electronics fields, the majority of which affect the games industry (motion capture, animation, rendering, sound processing, etc). Food for thought on how some of this can all tie together.

2. Interactive entertainment offers just as much content and discussion as literature, film, theatre, or any other medium, but is not somehow leaps and bounds above the rest as a focal topic because of the interactive aspects. Interpretation of content, technique, artist's intent, writing quality, editing, director's vision, and difference of impact across different consumers, not to mention technologies used, union rights, historical regards, marketing endeavours and cinema society are ALL topics that can be pulled up for ANY movie, many involving creation, others involving production, with others yet for the viewer. Entertainment Tonight by no means covers that breadth, not by a LONG shot.

That extreme depth isn't covered by many (if any) outlets in games either, unless you're willing to read Gamasutra, listen to GDC talks, watch indie developer streams, loop in on investor conference calls, analyze sales data, discuss cultural relevancies, check out EPN interviews, Reviews on the Run/other outlet reviews, community comments, youtube let's plays, study marketing materials, and play the games yourself. After ALL OF THAT, there are STILL topics not being broached.

Mediums have tons of content to explore and discuss. It's not unique to Games, nor their parent medium, Interactive entertainment (or ITS parent concept, interactivity).

3. There are movies that people will watch hundreds of times in their lives. The viewing time may be 2 hours, but that movie will take up hundreds on repeat, both as background noise and as something they enjoy. Transformers: The Movie got LOTS of wear growing up, and Snatch did likewise a decade or so back.

Games nowadays average 4-12 hour campaign playthroughs for AAA titles, depending on urgency. A game's replay-ability and hour value is dependant completely on whether or not someone likes the game. Mega Man 3, by all accounts, should be a 3 hour game at most, maybe more if it's taking a while to get through it all. For me, that's been hundreds. Likewise with plenty of others like Final Fantasy 6. Meanwhile, something that should be hundreds of hours like Oblivion I touch for 30 minute tops and drop it completely, so its "campaign time" or potential with all its content is irrelevant if it's not going to be consumed by the player.

4. E3 and the Oscars are poor comparisons. Comparing them is like comparing the NHL Playoffs to the NFL Draft. If anything, E3 is the Cannes or Sundance of games in a worse locale. A show devoted to previews of future products, industry celebrity appearances, media coverage, smaller companies trying to make it, and so forth (doesn't include the retail component on either side in this case). That being said, from a personal opinion standpoint, E3 is more entertaining than the Oscars, yes.

5. I'm actually curious who "finance" is at EPN now. This might be cause for investigation!


So what's my point? 

Amazingly, it's not to bust your balls, or play devil's advocate for the hell of it, or to prop movies up on a pedestal at the expense of games. The point is that opinions and debate are awesome in any medium we care about, but try not to confuse opinion for off point fact, no matter which camp you're in. All mediums and disciplines (creative and otherwise) have boundless aspects and perspectives to dissect whether in their roots, trunks or the tips of each branch.

Otherwise, do I want all the awesome in depth coverage and debate for GAMES, focused heavily on GAMES and the interactive medium at its core? Absolutely. 

You said yourself to start:

I'D certainly love to see stuff like that. If they were to put that much detail into the game reviews, there'd be no room for the movies and such.

Once the ball is rolling, I feel like you'll enjoy what you see, especially with Arcademy. 

And if you want to talk about the worth of a name, Arcademy has some obvious allusions. ;)

That extreme depth isn't covered by many (if any) outlets in games either, unless you're willing to read Gamasutra, listen to GDC talks, watch indie developer streams, loop in on investor conference calls, analyze sales data, discuss cultural relevancies, check out EPN interviews, Reviews on the Run/other outlet reviews, community comments, youtube let's plays, study marketing materials, and play the games yourself. After ALL OF THAT, there are STILL topics not being broached.

Hardcore gamers (including me) do look at that kind of stuff. The old EP knew this, but we're not worth coveting anymore, apparently.

Have you seen NeoGAF's 20-page thread on Nintendo's year-end investor's meeting? That's my crowd. 8)

Grr...snort...BOOM! :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5-X4pqL6QA


Once the ball is rolling, I feel like you'll enjoy what you see, especially with Arcademy.

Which is a website. An extension to the main televised product. It has nice exclusive features, but I just want a good gaming TV show...

Which is a website. An extension to the main televised product.

We're actually a partner to EPN, not born of it. Tough to be an extension of the televised product when you're not. :V

We're actually a partner to EPN, not born of it. Tough to be an extension of the televised product when you're not. :V

The way it's integrated into the EPN website, it comes across as an extension.

In any case, I've made my peace. Would be nice if the other classic fans would do the same and show that the spirit of core gaming is still alive... :)

Would be nice if the other classic fans would do the same and show that the spirit of core gaming is still alive... :)

I agree! Share your passion!

That goes for everyone. :)

Will we ever get 5 new episodes a week again? I understand if we do not, but the absence of information is kind of disheartening. I PVR it every day not knowing whether I will be seeing something new and fun or an old episode from January. Granted, I watched ROTR back when it was weekly (which I would be fine with as well), so two episodes are better than one. I am just not getting what the final strategy is here.

Will we ever get 5 new episodes a week again? I understand if we do not, but the absence of information is kind of disheartening. I PVR it every day not knowing whether I will be seeing something new and fun or an old episode from January. Granted, I watched ROTR back when it was weekly (which I would be fine with as well), so two episodes are better than one. I am just not getting what the final strategy is here.

This is just speculation, but I don't think its just the dearth of new content that's causing the shift to two episodes per week. With the loss of Miri, Ben, Briana and Scott it would be a huge challenge to continue to produce the same amount of content as they did with the full team.

Hopefully, Scott gets better soon and the team can hire more bodies to fill some of the holes that were left by the recent departures. I think once that happens we may hopefully see more new episodes.

Again, I'm just speculating here. Perhaps the plan is to scale back and not hire anyone, I can't say.

snip

Sickness, personnel changes and other madness or not, there's definitely a plan. Would SUCK if it was going to idle out, no matter the cause. :)

I have faith that Vic will find some way, or another, to make things work out in the end. He's been struggling (granted not by himself) for TWENTY FUCKING YEARS!!!

I remember him mentioning that he worked at a game studio in the early days of EP but had to leave because the show got renewed and stuff kept on comming in and proofs had to be made. Back then, it was games all the time because the technologie that we have today wasn't present.

Movies have brought a specific thing to the gaming world/universe and that is story telling, for one thing. Look at The Last of Us for a moment. It isn't simply a game, it's art. By taking a look at HOW games are made through the growth of movie making, it's an hommage that EPN is giving to the medium. A hundred years is not something you can ignore for very long when you look at how old the gaming industry is. There's a 60 year gap between the two and acknowledging that fact will shine a personal light as to why EP and ROTR have gone down the path they did.

I can't claim I know Victor Lucas in person or personnaly, which ever you prefer, but I've been listening to his observations and analysis of this industry and I can say that he recognize the need for diversity in how the reviews are done regarding a product or another. Typically, a review from IGN, Kotaku and other outlets will consist of a single opinion/point of view for a game and thats all you have to ingest. Words, descriptions, idioms, slang and probably corporate biased honesty. When you have a pair, the review is MUCH more dynamic in the sense that it isn't only ONE point of view that is expressed but TWO! Vic and Scott reviewed Battlefield 4 and Need for Speed on PS3&4 and, simply put, it is more scattered glitter than a gloss finish.

That said, opinions may or may not go in the same way based on personnal preferences. But giving only the focus on games isn't how it can be done in today's gaming industry because of corporates trying to sell shitty games to the mass audience. Why do you think they have never reviewed Candy Crush but keep talking about it? The answer to that is simple, base of reference for the mobile platform, which by the way now IS a legit and fleshed out gaming platform. I do agree however that at first I was questioning the changes, but now, I understand what the reason is behind it and I hope I helped at least one other person to see what I see in the content being aired on EP and ROTR.


In conclusion, because I feel I shouldn't go into certain subjects here, If you don't like the show anymore, don't watch it. If you disagree with what is said about a game, then don't(or do) buy it. You are the one who will consume the product so make up your own mind instead of what others tell you to buy or not to buy, regardless of the source.

Tommy's back, in-depth and uncensored!!!

http://epn.tv/all/spotlight/on-the-road-with-e3-and-tommy/

If you have trouble streaming it, save target as on that --> Download

Hey Vic, please get Tommy to review The Master Chief Collection when it comes out in November! :)